2009/10/5 Jeff Rose <jeff_at_rosejn.net>:
> To a new programmer there is virtually a blank slate when first coding
> though, and without having a toolbox of typical components in mind or
> memories of past projects, I think it is very difficult for beginners to
> keep an accurate mental model in mind. Having a patch on screen, where you
> can constantly check things, look at signals flow, watch buttons and number
> boxes update, etc., it all helps very, very much to inform this nascent
> mental model.
You get across the advantages of max and pd very well, but I think
these advantages you describe are mostly about the liveness rather
than the graphical interface. It's great that tangible variables are
right there mixed in with the code, but I've done something similar
with Perl, values updating in the code I'm editing.
I think the box-and-line syntax gets in the way of seeing what is
really great about these langauges -- the liveness, the instant
feedback, on-line syntax enforcement, tangible variables... I think
non-graph language designers have a lot to learn from max and pd.
> So yeah sure, they are Turing complete and you still type function names and
> arguments, but I think the real reason visual programming is nice for people
> with no programming experience is because it dramatically helps clarify and
> remind them of the working model of their program.
See, I think it's just wrong to call pd and max 'visual programming
languages'. I can't code C with my eyes shut! I guess dataflow or
graph languages are the right terms to use? You can define graphs and
dataflows without boxes and lines but that's my point really.
> Interestingly, I think that this same benefit in the beginning stages
> becomes the primary drawback at later stages. While in "real" programming
> languages you have good tools for creating abstractions so that you can
> think at higher and higher levels, I think in Max you are kind of stuck at a
> sort of medium level of abstraction no matter what.
Is that always true or just generally? I've seen some tidy max
patches which seemed to have well thought out abstractions and things.
alex
--
http://yaxu.org/
Received on Mon Oct 05 2009 - 16:22:55 BST