Here's a discussion pasted from facebook, where I was moaning about
one of the reactions from last night's talk. I've pasted it here
unedited, Kassen has some nice points.
Alex:
Always an odd vibe when presenting live coding to a group of
programmers. 'Why not show flashing LEDs? No-one wants to look at
screens" eh?
Alex:
a) Why have a few LEDs when you can have 786432+ pixels b) people go
to the cinema c) people don't have to look at anything, it's music
Juan:
damn straight!
Kassen:
Alex, could you briefly explain how this "screen V.S. leds" debate
came into life? Sounds a bit surreal.
Alex:
The debate didn't happen, I'm giving the answers here that I wished I
gave there.. It came as the last question after a presentation that
showed videos of slub, ixilang, mcld, etc. I think it was a counter
reaction that experienced programmers sometimes have, of not
understanding any of the motivation of live coding. It's a surprising
reaction and I wish I understood it more. I'm trying to think of an
analogous situation, maybe people who do large scale landscape
gardening can't see the point in experimental topiary for example, but
would be open to live coding. Or maybe programming attracts particular
personality types that aren't open to experimentation in general. I
think I prefer the first explanation as a bit less depressing, next
time I find a person like this I'll ask them about their thoughts on
topiary.
Alex:
The answer I really gave was something about the projection was not
actually important, that it was more a gesture of openness rather than
trying to make the code part of the performance. That's what I have
believed but recent experience has made me doubt it, in the right
situation it seems non-programmers really do get excited about seeing
the code behind the performance. Perhaps it isn't a distraction as
I've considered it, but something that adds to the experience. I'll
have to hand out a questionnaire next time I perform..
Kassen:
I still don't see where the leds came from, but let me address this
anyway. Isn't this in a way logical? Livecoding does critique the
traditional position of the programmer so it is to be expected that
they will be critical. We critique the idea of programming being only
for a sort of Computer High Priest by demonstrating that it can also
be a fun past-time that's quite accessible. In the meantime we
critique the idea of a separation between designers and the people
doing implementation. Maybe that's where the critique came from, even
though it addressed the issue of showing screen. I'm sure they would
agree that it's beneficial to be able to look at the Linux kernel,
even though in day to day life we have no need for that.
Alex:
Yes I don't understand the LED thing either, perhaps he had something
in particular in mind. I probably should have answered his questions
with more questions for him.
Nice point about criticism, unwitting in this case but perhaps we
should be more directly critical of programmers, we're in a good
position for doing it within.
Kassen:
I'm personally more critical of the social and cultural position that
programmers have been shoved into. To me it seems quite odd that it's
seen as a non-creative profession despite the continual need for
solutions to new problems. On the other hand it also seems odd to me
that a person tending to the well-being of a database will often be
rewarded more highly than a person working similarly irregular hours
tending to the well-being of human bodies. The reasoning behind that
last scenario seems based on the average person having a more
intuitive understanding of what a body does than what a computer does
with the obvious conclusion that computers must be more complicated.
Both of those things seem profoundly upside-down to me. If anything
the poor programmers seem shoved into a very odd position where it's
no wonder that they will feel awkward to the point of occasionally
becoming aggressively defensive. More critique of programmers doesn't
seem like the answer to me.
Alex:
Yes good points, although I think programmers at least deserve some
criticism if they are unaware of the context they work in, and/or of
not working against it.
This is a good discussion, perhaps we should paste it into livecode?
Kassen:
Sure. Feel free to copy-paste my points or to summarise or cherry-pick
bits that seem most important.
Received on Tue Jul 05 2011 - 13:45:01 BST